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Datre 079 – Thoughters

Datre answers Susmita. (part I)

JOHN: Okay, today we have some questions from Susmita and her first question is… “I understand mind has to exist before matter can exist.”

DATRE: No. In the case of physicality that is not a viable concept. Matter can exist without the MIND, because matter contains consciousness – as we have said before. That’s the only word that we can find that works, that you can understand. We’ve said before, everything contains that which you call consciousness. In other words, the rocks, the plants. The trees anything contains that which you call consciousness. So, the MIND is, shall we say, that is a different construct entirely. Now, I don’t know whether… so many people interchange ‘mind’ and ‘brain’. So MIND, what we call the MIND that is within the BUBBLE that is CONTENT the ‘brain’ PROCESSES content. The brain processes content from MASS CONSCIOUSNESS and from the MIND within the BUBBLE – it does two things. So, the brain is a ‘processor’. So maybe that’ll help straighten this out a little bit. Continue.

JOHN: The next question is… When I look at the intricate beauty of a flower or the ever changing shapes and colors of clouds in the sky I always wonder from whose mind it came from? Who can create such beauty! Am I only fantasizing? I know that there is a very thin line or perhaps no line between fact and fantasy!”

DATRE: Well, you see, you are ALL grand creators, you just don’t realize it. Now, what you as an individual see, is your own creation. That is why everyone sees differently. Now, you have set up, shall we say, guidelines, for instance like a flower. You will look at a rose, because you have identified that over how long time I do not know, ever since that plant has existed, you’ve insisted that that particular plant is a rose. So, it has been a rose, been a rose, been a rose. You all agree on color, it’s a red rose. Your red rose and another individuals red rose can be entirely different, because of what intricacy ‘you’ see that another individual does NOT see.

The more you begin to explore and ‘observe’, the more you will notice the subtle changes in your observation. Things become ‘sharper’, they become more intricate in design and you were not necessarily focusing on the intricacies, it will just be that you will see them. So, one person can look at a rose, ‘so, its a rose, no big deal’. Another person will look at it with extreme fascination, because they are putting ‘their’ interpretation on that ‘particular’ flower and it becomes as beautiful as they wish to perceive it to be. There again, you create what you wish to see. That’s why some people will see a ‘dump’ and another will see, ‘oh, something grand to create with’. Its in… You have heard it again and again, ‘it is all within the eye of the beholder’. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, her next question is… “Do “Thoughters” work directly with/from universal mind?”

DATRE: Thoughters are unique. Thoughters are… like we said way at the beginning, we can only describe it as the dandelion seed, in that, it goes where ever it wishes to go, it replenishes itself, it is an ISNESS, there are no boundaries on a Thoughter. We can say, ‘Thoughters’ are ‘birthed’ as Thoughters. Now, that is different… do not get that mixed up with ‘born’, which is a physical construct. They are BIRTHED as Thoughters. They exist as Thoughters. So there is a definite difference, but the only words that you can understand are ‘birthed’ and ‘born’, so we have to use those. That is when it becomes difficult to explain things. That’s why many things cannot be explained, because your words are so limiting. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, her next question is… “Certain thoughts suddenly appear out of nowhere, without any act of perceiving or linking with previous thought. Are those the ones that come from “Thoughters”?

DATRE: That is a difficult question, it can be yes and it can be no. It can be a connection… you see, your computer runs all the time. You don’t have an OFF switch on your computer called your brain. Now, that brain may be putting something together with something else that you’re totally unaware of. It also can be a ‘Thoughter’. But a Thoughter usually comes as a “brand new idea” from which you can ‘continuously’ draw and get more and more and more and more out of that ‘original’ idea. A ‘link’ from the brain will be something, you’ll recognize it, but it has no connection with anything, you cannot ‘draw’ from a link. But you can draw inspiration and ideas from a THOUGHT that is coming from a Thoughter. So, that is the only way we can tell you the difference and you would have to be the one that could decipher for yourself individually. Continue.

JOHN: Alright, and the next question is… “I understand plants are just as realized as animals are and they also work from Group mind. Could you say a little more about the inner world of plants as opposed to animals or humans.”

DATRE: Well, number one, the human does not work from ‘group’ mind. It works from MASS CONSCIOUSNESS, but that’s your own ‘drawing’ from MASS CONSCIOUSNESS. An animal works from a ‘group’ mind. In other words, when an animal “dies” it goes back into ‘group’ mind and it draws from that for it’s next experience.

A plant does NOT have that type of existence, because the plant does not have that which you call a brain to work with. So, there’s those different stages… a plant goes through, shall we say, it’s evolutionary cycle, it dies, it’s reborn, it dies, it’s reborn, it dies, it’s reborn. But, that is different it does not have a state of evolution. On a planet, a plant remains ‘that’ particular plant and that stays with the planet – that is its planetary existence.

Now, with animals, animals can go to different planetary existences, because the ‘group’ mind can take them to different planetary existences. Then depending upon the planetary existence, they will change their construct to match and be able to work with the planet. So, there’s three different kinds right there. Continue.

JOHN: And along those same lines, her next question is… “Are the rocks and minerals realized too?”

DATRE: No. The rocks and minerals are like the plants, they’re conscious, but they’re not realized. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, her next question is… “How do the process of evolution differ for realized bodies like animals, as opposed to those who are not realized like humans?”

DATRE: Well, those that are realized have a certain vibratory construct and that is maintained, regardless of how many eons or whatever you want to call it, they exist. They were and they will be, because they have been “realized”.

Now, the humans when they are realized, from this BIRTH, if that’s their desire, then from that point, that is where they will be and they will continue their evolution from ‘that’ point and in their ‘next’ planetary existence they will be ‘that’ all the time.

JOHN: A whole new species.

DATRE: Yes, but it will be from that point of realization. So, continue.

JOHN: And her next question is… “Is the purpose of evolution is having a greater and grander experience?”

DATRE: Of course! If you’re one of those individuals that are always looking for something NEW then you will find that there is an ‘excitement’ in evolution. Then you don’t want to stop. You want to continue. There are those that want to stop – that is up to them.

But, when you go through a certain period of time, then there has to be a break-off, because this planetary existence is something that is coming to an end. Then, in order to go any further, you need to go someplace else. You’ve gone as far as you’re going to go, most people have dug themselves in and they’re ‘resistant’ to change. The majority on your planet are ‘resistant’ to change. They want things to stay as they are. Then, there are those on the planet that are anxious for change. They’re looking for something new; they’re looking for another place else to go – to experience something else. So, that is why a change has to be made.

You can’t put those two divergent qualities on one planet and make it work, because there’s dissatisfaction on ‘both’ sides. Those that are resistant to change, want to stay the way they are. They don’t like the individuals that are searching for something ‘new’ and different – Visa versa, the other is also true. So, when you have that great a divergence, you need to change. Your planet is too small to separate you. You’ll notice, everything now is global.

So, those that are, shall we say, going kicking and screaming are unhappy and the others are not moving as fast as they want to move. Because their thoughts are beginning to connect up with things that the one’s that are digging in can’t even fathom. So, how can there be communication? Even in… Get it right down to the smallest denominator, which you call your families. Look how divergent your thought patterns are within a family. Those that are trying to hold the family together and those that are screaming and kicking and saying, ‘I want to be out on my own’. Your thought patterns within a family are so different and divergent that they can no longer stay together. That is just a tiny example. Then when you take a whole planet, you have mass confusion and chaos. So, you can see, those that want to evolve are going to be given the opportunity TO evolve in a different construct entirely. Continue.

JOHN: The next question is… “Is the process driven initially by group intentions/desires/expectations and later more and more by individual intentions and desires?” This process of evolution.

DATRE: Of course. Of course, there are those individuals that are very, very comfortable existing off of that which you call MASS CONSCIOUSNESS. That’s their comfort zone. They enjoy being like everyone else. They enjoy the same things everyone else enjoys. The young people will wear crazy clothes, because they want to be different. And yet they’re difference is not between each other, the difference is between they and their parents or other people. But, they still are working in a group. Then someone comes up with a new crazy hair do, then they ALL want to try that, because that is the ‘group’ that they are working with.

Same with your companies. Some companies are very restrictive in that, this is the way that you have to dress if you work in this company. These are the rules; therefore you have to look like everyone else. Other companies, it does not matter, all they want you to do is produce something new, different. Those are called… what do they call them John?

JOHN: Entrepreneurs?

DATRE: Could be, the mavericks, the ones that come up with new thoughts, new ideas. The boss doesn’t care how that individual is dressed, it does not matter. So you see, you’re having all different things happening on your planet – all at the same time. But, those that want to go someplace else and do something different and their thought patterns are ‘entirely’ different, then there’s no place for them. You can be ‘different’ so long as you stay within the MASS CONSCIOUSNESS construct. But that is where the difference ceases. Then those that do not fit into the MASS CONSCIOUSNESS construct find themselves with a uniqueness that doesn’t necessarily fit and they’re making ‘adjustments’ TO fit. Continue.

JOHN: And her next question is… “Was there always individuals throughout the human experience, whose thought pattern differed significantly from the mass consciousness?”

DATRE: Yes, because there are those that remember what they were doing when they “died” and continued in that, so they do not loose it at the next birth. It’s the ones that start over every time; they take nothing from when they were “when they were alive”. They take nothing from that which you call the dead zone and they start over brand new again, with no remembrance of anything. No desire, no particular intent or purpose for that which you call your ‘next’ birth. Those that have an intent and purpose in their next birth, will very definitely continue. Then in their continuation, they will come in as uniquely different individuals. Continue.

JOHN: Taking off on that same question she says… “Like Buddha or Christ for example. Can you locate the strongly individuated Buddha personality in any realities in our bubble or is it beyond recognition?”

DATRE: Now, you have to realize that those “individuals” existed at a time far beyond your “remembrance”. What you have set in your mind as to ‘your’ interpretation as to that which is ‘Christ’, ‘your’ interpretation of that which is ‘Buddha’, ‘your’ interpretation of that which is ‘God’ or whatever; it is “your” interpretation. So, if you find a vibration that ‘you’ think is Christ, that is ‘your’ interpretation’. It does not matter one way or the other. Because you see, you have a concept in your mind of what that individual represents. So, that ‘concept’ is what you will resonate to. That’s why, to observe that which you call ‘your Christ’ in a church atmosphere, everybody’s concept is different, there’s no two alike. There never can be any two alike, because you all are working from the concept that you have in your particular computer, which is your brain.

You put things in a computer, that’s mechanical, and everything you have in your computer is different than anybody else’s because that is what you put in yours, when you make up the things that go in your computer. The stuff that you put into your computer, like programs and the stuff that originally goes in the box, all the electrical pieces, those are the ones that you put in your computer on the desk. You do the same thing with the brain. You’re putting stuff in there all the time. You’re putting it in for recognition.

As a child, you begin to formulate what these individuals are. Now, how can any two people formulate the same thing? Because your input is all different. So finding anyone is, from our standpoint, a very difficult concept to perceive. Because we would have to find the one that looked like the one that ‘you’ thought it was. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, and her next question is… “Can an individual plant’s or animal’s experience/thought pattern deviate significantly from their respective Group Mind(s)?”

DATRE: Now, as I’ve explained before, plants don’t have group minds, they run on an entirely different principle. Animals work from a group mind. Can they deviate – they can experience when they’re in the bodies. When they have physical bodies, they can have different experiences. When they go back into group mind they take their experiences with them and those experiences are put into the group mind. Which means that any animal that’s going… take any of your animals and they go into that group mind, they draw from that for their next experience. So, the more an animal experiences different things, the more different an animal can become, because there will be differences to draw from. Continue.

JOHN: And her next question is, relative to the previous question… “How do they change their vibration to evolve?”

DATRE: They do not evolve. They expand their experiences, but they do not evolve. They will always maintain that specific vibration. That specific vibration is carried with them wherever they exist. If they’re on planet Earth, their vibration is here for planet Earth and they exist as ‘cats and ‘dogs’. If they exist on another planet, they will not necessarily be ‘cats’ and ‘dogs’ their vibration will have a different effect on other planets. But, the group mind that they draw from will be that of the group mind and that does not change anything, other than what they draw from.

In other words, you draw from your BUBBLE. You draw from the MASS CONSCIOUSNESS and you draw from the MIND of the BUBBLE. But, you can’t draw from anything else. This is what you have, this is your evolution. This is your BUBBLE; this is the one you’re to learn from. But, the difference is, that there… because a human per se has never been realized, you’re at the ‘tip’ of the spear as far as the evolution of a physical construct is concerned. So it is entirely different, your evolution of that which you call your brain understanding has NOT been realized.

So, this is entirely different. You’re not in an animal construct evolutionary process. You are evolving as an ‘entirely different’ species, because you’re NOT drawing from a group mind. You’re working toward INDIVIDUATION. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, her next question is… “Is there a point after self-realization where evolution can stop for someone, who chooses “not to be” any more?”

DATRE: Yes, that will happen at the BIRTH. If one wants to… if they’ve said, ‘I’ve had enough, I don’t want any more’ you can quit. Then what will happen is that which is contained within your evolutionary experiences for as long as you have been “in existence” will be absorbed by an Entity, which is a containment. Because ALL experiences are ‘contained’, they’re never lost. Continue.

JOHN: And following on that she say’s… “If so, would that state of being be something like “nirvana”?”

DATRE: No, because when you give up – not wishing to experience anymore – that is what you give up. That is no longer existence.

Nirvana is a state that has been misunderstood from it’s original intent. Nirvana was functioning from a standpoint of using as much of the MIND contained within the BUBBLE as possible. Then, when one reached the point of no longer being able to get enough of the MIND information and was unhappy drawing from that which is MASS CONSCIOUSNESS – they finished out a “life time” of drawing from the MIND of the BUBBLE. At that point they chose to continue to draw from the MIND of the BUBBLE but no longer experience physicality.

Now, a great deal is lost in not going through physicality, but also a great deal is gained, by working with that which you call the MIND of the BUBBLE. But at that point it was simply MIND. Then those that went into that which they called ‘Nirvana’ were those that were no longer fascinated with the ‘magic’. Because, they ‘knew’ what it was to go from sleep, to awake, to death, to re-birth and they went through that full cycle in total ‘awareness’. Then there was no ‘magic’ any more. Then when the ‘magic’ ceases, there’s no need to play the game. When you don’t play the game anymore, then you begin to draw TOTALLY from that which you call the MIND of the BUBBLE. At that point, you do not need a physical body, because you’re busy interpreting the ‘symbols’ within the MIND of the BUBBLE. That’s Nirvana. But, Nirvana is shall we say, attained – using your words – when an individual has played the whole game and ‘knows’ its a game, and ‘knows’ that ‘they’ are the ones that put the game in front of them in the first place. Continue.

JOHN: And her next question is… “As our Universe stands now, is being a universal being more or less defines the highest range of vibration that is possible?”

DATRE: I wonder if she’s talking about ‘our’ universe, meaning you’re planetary existence?

JOHN: Our BUBBLE you mean?

DATRE: Yes. There’s two ways of answering that. You see, all that is contained within your universe is many, many planetary bubbles – many stages of existence, many stages of evolution. So, sometimes this planet and all contained within this BUBBLE is referred to as the Universe. But there’s many ‘bubbles’ in a Universe and there are Universes beyond this Universe – yes. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, her next question is… “If realities within the same bubble (our earth or solar system (?) For example) are separated by vibrations? Does this truth also hold for one bubble to another bubble and from one universe to the other universes?”

DATRE: Basically. That’s the only way anything can be separated. That’s the only way anything can be separated, is by what you call, vibrations. It is not a very good word, but it’s the only one you have. So, there is no other way of separating that which ‘you’re’ MIND at the present time can conceive. Continue.

JOHN: Okay, and her next question is… “I understand a finer vibration that is self-realized can travel thru and have the experience of those having a courser vibration; but the vice-versa is not possible.”

DATRE: That is correct to a certain degree. Continue.

JOHN: And the final question for this segment is… “If that is so, then an animal can chose to temporally have the experience of a plant!….

DATRE: No. No, because you have to realize that an animal works from a ‘group mind’. It, group mind, does not conceive of being anything other than what it is. If you work from a ‘group mind’ you cannot perceive an individual thought like that, because that is not coming out of the ‘group mind’. Continue.

JOHN: And that same question continues on… “But that seems odd! What I am confused about is what separates those that are self-realized and those that are not so, is it awareness or vibration or both?”

DATRE: I think maybe we touched a little bit on that. Those that are self realized, are those that have gone through a BIRTH. In other words, the end of an ‘existence’ at some level and have ‘chosen’ to STAY at that level – THAT is realized. Now, they’re satisfied with the evolution at that point, so they ‘stay’ at that evolutionary concept.

Now, because you’re working from a ‘different’ concept than has ever been before, and that is the evolution of that which you call, man/woman in physical mass. This is an evolution that is different than has ever previously been. So, its very difficult, because you don’t understand, that NONE on this planetary existence, from its beginning to its end have been ‘realized’.

Those that came ON this planet were in a stage of evolution. But, those that are ON this planet will, for the ‘first time’ – those that were in a state of evolution coming onto this planet – will for the first time go through THIS type of a BIRTH. The only time you can become REALIZED is when you go from the end of a cycle – an evolutionary cycle called the BIRTH – that is the point you will be ‘realized’ at. But there have been NONE that have left the BUBBLE. They don’t leave the BUBBLE until the end of the evolutionary cycle. So, at that point, individuals CAN be realized, if that is their desire, they don’t wish to evolve any further than the state of MAN, as man is at the present time. They will continue in that state, regardless of how ‘others’ evolve beyond that point, they will STOP at that point. I don’t know whether I’ve made that clear or not, but I’ve tried. Is that all right John?

JOHN: Its fine with me. It’s a difficult concept for those on this planet to conceive of because…

DATRE: Well because through that which you call your ‘time’ you’re ‘original’ concepts in your evolution when you began ‘this’ planetary existence have been changed. The ‘original’ intent of evolution, has in many instances, been changed and lost, shall we say, in your evolutionary processes. Things have been ‘changed’ by those “in authority”, so that the ‘original’ content of the information is no longer there.

JOHN: When you say, those in authority, your talking about physical beings.

DATRE: Yes. Yes, physical beings. No one has any influence on individuals in this BUBBLE, except those that are IN the BUBBLE. We can give you information to help you understand, but there is NO WAY that we can come in and change anything. It is YOUR evolution; it has been since the beginning. It is NOT OUR evolution, it has nothing to do with us. We can ‘watch’ your evolution, but we can in no way ‘effect’ your evolution. You came into and on to this planetary existence, those that are within the BUBBLE are the ‘only’ ones that can change ‘anything’ – period.

Then, those that are within the BUBBLE that are interested in ‘power’ can change circumstances. Those that are interested in finding out WHO THEY ARE, what the planet’s all about, what the body is all about, what evolution is all about, don’t care for outward power – its not their goal. So there has always been those that were interested in evolution, but NOT of a ‘physical’ evolution – that comes with it. You have to evolve the physical body along with everyone else that’s evolving the physical body. But, those that are here to find out what its all about and find out where the ‘magic’ is and walk through, the daytime, the night time, the death and the birth and find out what makes that work, how does it work.

If that is their intent, then regardless of what goes on with MASS CONSCIOUSNESS, this is their intent, they want to find the ‘magic’, what makes this work and they will continue to find out what makes it work. It is never ending, because they are interested in what they ‘originally’ came here to find out and that is the ‘evolution’ HERE. So, I don’t know if we have explained this fully or not. But, those within the BUBBLE are the only ones that can make any changes – guaranteed. Continue.

JOHN: That was the last question for this segment.

DATRE: That was a very good place to end. That will give them something to chew on. We will leave you now.

We’re Datre.

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